Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Discussions about Kallistra's Hex Based Rules
Ratty
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by Ratty »

Hi,
I'm new to the Hordes and Heroes rule set, having played Warmaster for years, but was interested in the faster play and more consistent ability to plan and execute moves not reliant on the luck of a dice role. Your rules do this very well. I've had a couple of small games already and have found the rules generally straight forward to follow and interpret. However, over the course of play a few situations arose which we found hard to interpret from the book but were able to muddle through in a friendly manner. However we thought the official interpretation from your good selves would be good to know.

1. To make a turn during movement is free up to 1 point or face of the hexagon, but how much does it cost, in terms of movement points, to turn further than this

2. Is the range of archers always 2? We played a 100 Years War battle and the English player thought the rule to fire over the heads of friendly troops in an adjacent hex but on a lower elevation of interest, however if the range is only 2 for archers then it seems to negate the effectiveness of the formation.

3. Is line of sight assessed from the centre point of the firers hex to the centre point of the target hex, thus explaining if the line travels along the hex edge of an occupied intervening hex the line of sight is blocked

4. What happens to a unit engaged in combat who destroys the opposing unit, does it remain in position, or does it follow up into the vacated hex, or can it reform and face a new direction?

5. Combat involving multiple attackers on a single target is an obvious strategy to play for- bringing to bear overwhelming force. We found on a few occasions it wasn't always a cut and dried victory and sometimes the defender was forced to flee. This raised an issue with the attackers and again following up. Can only one unit follow up as this on occasion handed the initiative back to the defender and allowed him to regroup and assault a less than cohesive attacking force.

6. Could you clarify the Zone of Control rule in combat situations. Do overlapping ZOCs cancel each other out, or just block Command and Control pathways. We had a situation where a unit was assaulted by 4 attacking units- miraculously survived with minor damage and a recoil result- however if overlapping ZOC are still active in combat, this means there is no way for the unit to recoil without going back into the zone of control of one of the attacking units.

7. When a unit following up or pursuing comes into contact with an unengaged missile unit, does this trigger a volley of arrows in the next shooting phase?

Finished at last. Your help would be most appreciated. A useful thing would for you to do a battle report which explains the application of the rules in a variety of situations commonly encountered during the course of a typical game, the battle reports on the website are fantastic but very much a narrative and it would be really useful for obviously very experienced players to pass on some of their knowledge to novice players,
Many thanks and best wishes. ;)
dane
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:48 pm

Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by dane »

Hi Ratty
I also play a lot of warmaster as well Hordes and hero's

1/ it costs 1 mp to turn anymore
2/ yes it is always 2 hexes they will still shoot in the example given at anythink charging the infantry infront of them you can also use the mixed formation with the english giving you 2 stakes to billmen 2 bowmen stands in 1 hex
3/ not sure on this one but i would say yes
4/ yes it goes into the hex it just cleared
5/ yes you choose 1 unit to go into the hex
6/ ZOC are active so in the example you would die
7/ Yes they will shoot at you

Dane
dane
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:48 pm

Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by dane »

Just thought where about's are you in the world as i believe that there is going to be another Kallistra Games Day in Mansfield the first one was great fun.

Dane
Ratty
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by Ratty »

Thanks for the answers Dane, they have helped clarify the confusion. The Games day sounded like a great event. Will look out for next one. I live in Shropshire so not too far to travel.
Another question:
If cavalry are involved in a combat involving wooded terrain, when do they count as being disrupted. Is it only when they are attacking the wooded hex, or are they also disrupted when defending against an attack launched from a wooded hex such as an infantry unit carrying out an opportunistic ambush.
Many thanks,
Ratty
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Paul K
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Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by Paul K »

Hi Ratty

Welcome to the forum.

I was going to clarify the points you have raised as clearly and concisely as I could but Dane has already done so! We are working on the 2014 revised edition of the H&H rules and army lists, both of which will be published on line as a free download. The rules are the same with some very minor amendments which address issues raised by gamers. The primary aim of the 2014 update is to present more clearly with improved written text and diagrams, the key game mechanics and example situations as they arise – some of which you have focussed on in your questions.

The H&H medieval system is very different to Warmaster and the two systems have completely different game mechanics, but both do give a medieval level of command and control - your troops, even with carefully worked tactics, may never quite do as you planned once battle is joined.
Ratty wrote: A useful thing would for you to do a battle report which explains the application of the rules in a variety of situations commonly encountered during the course of a typical game, the battle reports on the website are fantastic but very much a narrative and it would be really useful for obviously very experienced players to pass on some of their knowledge to novice players,
I agree, we will endeavour to do just as you, and a good number of others have suggested on this front. As we move into 2014 we will hopefully make the H&H system more accessible to all by explaining things with greater clarity.
Ratty wrote: Another question:
If cavalry are involved in a combat involving wooded terrain, when do they count as being disrupted. Is it only when they are attacking the wooded hex, or are they also disrupted when defending against an attack launched from a wooded hex such as an infantry unit carrying out an opportunistic ambush.
Ratty
Cavalry fight as if disrupted if they occupy a wooded hex or are fighting any enemy unit(s) occupying a wooded hex. The bottom line is, keep your cavalry, especially 'impact' cavalry away from wooded areas if you want them to fight with optimum effect!
Kind regards
Paul

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dane
Posts: 184
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Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by dane »

Hi Paul

Next rematch if we get Sally to set up the Camera we can do a full report

Dane
Ratty
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by Ratty »

Thanks for the reply. The revised rules edition sounds great. Dane, if you could post a battle report it would really help, although with the answers already given I'm sure this Friday's game will go well. Time to put on the thinking cap and work out an appropriate and cunning plan :idea:
Many thanks, and I'll add further posts to update you on how the game goes and any other issues that need resolving.
Gabz
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:40 pm
Location: East Sussex UK

Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by Gabz »

yes a more detailed batrep illustrating some of the commonly questioned rules mechanics would be great :D
creosoto
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:53 pm

Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by creosoto »

Hi Paul,

nice to hear that revised rule edition is being worked out.
We are actively playing with Hordes and Heroes rule set since few weeks and we are now looking forward to get the new edition :)

I would like to take the opportunity to report you an issue we have detected in the Army List for Burgundian Ordonnance:
Handgunners have suspicious values for Hand-to-Hand combact factor [4(+4)] or Points Cost [8].
I think that Hand-to-Hand combact factor should be changed into 2 (as all other handgunners in the army lists)
You may check this and correct it in the new edition ;)
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Paul K
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Re: Rules clarifications Hordes and Heroes Medieval

Post by Paul K »

creosoto wrote: I would like to take the opportunity to report you an issue we have detected in the Army List for Burgundian Ordonnance:
Handgunners have suspicious values for Hand-to-Hand combact factor [4(+4)] or Points Cost [8].
I think that Hand-to-Hand combact factor should be changed into 2 (as all other handgunners in the army lists)
You may check this and correct it in the new edition ;)
Well spotted! Yes you are correct, the Combat Factor should be 4.

This will be corrected in the new 2014 Army lists which we are working on at the moment.
Kind regards
Paul

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